Meeting1 - Mon 28 April, 2008 (5pm)


Room 605, 6th floor, NSTDA Building, Rama6 Road.


  1. Thaweesak Koanantakool (Hugh), NECTEC
  2. Kamthorn Krairaksa, NECTEC
  3. Krit Kowasat (Bomb), NECTEC
  4. Samphan Raruenrom, Open Source Development
  5. ศุภฤกษ์ วินา, Open Source Development
  6. Poakpong Phongsasanongkul, Khun Kajorn's representative (e-printing, Adobe)
  7. Trin Tantsetthi (Conductor), Internet Thailand (WTT 2.0)
  8. Theppitak Karoonboonyanan (Thep), Free software developer (libthai, GNOME)
  9. Pattara Kiatisevi (Ott), MM Technology (KDE, Qt)
  10. Jakkapun Kwanroengjai (กอล์ฟ), MM Technology (KDE, Qt)
  11. Vuthichai Ampornaramveth, MM Technology (SimpleThai, cttex)
  12. Arthit Suriyawongkul (Art/bact'), SIIT, Thammasat University
  13. Patipat Susumpow (Keng), OpenDream
  14. Patcharaporn Pansuwan (Neung), OpenDream
  15. Martin Hosken, Payap University
  16. Sira Nokyoongtong (Mara/มะระ), UbuntuClub
  17. Phisit Siprasatthong
  18. James Clark, Thai Open Source Software Center
  19. Fukiat Julnual, Microsoft Thailand
  20. (not presented) Virach Sornlertlamvanich (Tid), Thai Computational Linguistics Lab
  21. (not presented) Dome Charoenyost

Add your name/surname/nickname here.

Facilities to be prepared

  • Video projector [ok]
  • White board [ok]
  • WiFi access guest coupons [ok]
  • Simple dinner [ok]

Objectives of this meeting

  1. To kick off the WTT3 task force, and define the scope and priority of what to do
  2. To outline the overall plan for WTT3
  3. To assign lead author/editor of each topic in the draft
  4. To agree upon the top three deliverables which we can complete within the next three months
  5. To approve the frequency of meeting and other management issues, including funding, if required.

Proposed Agenda

  1. Agreement on the proposed agenda [add your comment below]
  2. What do we want to have in WTT3 (Please read and put your vote on this Worksheet)
  3. What other works do we want to write about, as a supplement to WTT3.
  4. Delegation: who will lead each "topic" of WTT3.
  5. What should be the first three deliverables, and the delivery date?
  6. Date of the next meeting. Expected frequency of real meeting.
  7. Discussion on the use of Wikidot: is it good enough, or we change to something better?

Minutes of Meeting

  • WTT guidelines [Hugh]
    • Persists in the long future
    • Adaptable to dynamic changes of technologies
    • Minority language coverage?
    • Mobile input? (an example: Chinese Pinyin)
    • Incident table still 2D?
  • International concerns [James]
    • WTT should specify standards in international context, not just national
    • Script vs. language should be distinguished
  • WTT 2.0 situations [Trin]
    • Multi-level I/O strictness
    • Systems with full conformances: Solaris, OO.o, XIM, SCIM
    • Only covers Thai language, Pali & Sanskrit transliteration using Thai alphabets
      • [James] Specifications for Latin script already cover many languages, why not for Thai script?
  • Minority languages concerns
    • [Martin] As many as 50 languages are being written with Thai script
    • [Martin] Some more examples: กี็๋ กื็๋ แ็ า็
    • Principle: Different strings must be rendered differently
    • [bact] Should input and output be separated?
    • [bact] How about same string which is allowed in minority languages but not allowed in Thai language, e.g. ก็่? Should it be rendered differently in different languages?
    • [Martin] How about the case of กูํ or กํู ? What is the accepted order?
      • [Trin] According to WTT concept, กูํ is the canonical order, กํู is not
      • Unicode allows both, with normalization requirement in all algorithms
      • [Trin] Unicode is repeating our failure in the past, before WTT 2.0 addressed it
    • [Trin] Extra level for minority languages?
    • [James] Technical support level, such as OpenType variation selection, is another detail to determine
    • [Trin] Canonical string is the real core of WTT concept, not input/output
      • [Vuthichai] Agreed. Input sequence correction should be allowed, as long as canonical string is resulted
  • Typographical issues [Poakpong]
    • Should common typographical practices, like spacing, be described as guidelines or recommendations?
    • Common keyboard shortcuts for special characters?
    • The use of ZWSP
    • Proper font support
  • Some problems [Poakpong]
    • UTF-8/UTF-16 confusion on Mac
      • [Trin] UTF-8 and UTF-16 are clear standards, should not be issue
      • [Kamthorn] PUA problem?
      • [Trin] MacThai is proprietary standard, not official, and should not be used for transmission
      • [Thep,Vuthichai] Probably a bug of Firefox Mac version?
  • Options [Trin]
    • Drop WTT 2.0?
    • Extend the scope of WTT 2.0 for more languages written with Thai script?
    • Develop a shared library?
  • WTT 3.0 Categories [James]
    • Encoding
    • Display (+ line wrapping)
    • Editing (input sequence, caret movements, backspace, delete, etc.)
    • Sorting
  • Working Groups [Hugh]
    • DEE = Display + Encoding + Editing
    • S = Sorting
  • Other issues
    • [Samphan] Thai alphabetical numbering
      • [Trin] Law or parliament institutes should already have some standards
    • String collation
      • Two existing practices, from the same source (the Royal Institute Dictionary):
        • Dictionary based: direct rule application
        • Telephone directory based: with word boundary concern
      • [Thep] Two implementation approaches with the same result:
        • Unicode: re-ordering as preprocessing
        • GNU C library: using collating elements to cope with re-ordering
      • [James] Different results for invalid strings
  • Collaboration tools [Trin]
    • What to use? Is existing tools appropriate?
    • Summary:
      • wikidot as scratch board
      • new wtt3 mailing list for discussion, in English, for easy reference in international documents moc.spuorgelgoog|3ttw#moc.spuorgelgoog|3ttw
  • Volunteer:
    • James as the draft editor
    • Thep to prepare materials on string collation
  • Participation
    • [Poakpong] More linguists?
    • [bact] Printing associations?
    • IBM? (IBM National Language Development)

Minute taker: Thep

Other minutes:

  1. (Unofficial) บันทึกการประชุม WTT 3.0 ครั้งที่ 1 - Sira Nokyoongtong
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